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How To
(If anyone has pictures/model numbers/car models and years, please contribute here.) Phantom 48 used a GM alternator. Phantom ICT uses a bigger one.
Extra credit:
Someone add notes here, because I've never actually done it on a car with any success. You basically have it run less current to the field once you hit top speed, and then you can go faster.
(David Ortiz-Grob) First stop: get that 1500w motor controller that’s like $34 (Jared McNeil)
this one: https://www.ebay.com/.../48V-DC-1500W.../252876629480… EBAY.COM 48V DC 1500W Brushless Motor Controller For E-bike Scooter…
(Craig Byrne) Is there an agreed upon field winding voltage range yet? Or if it needs to be dynamic depending on throttle? (Jared McNeil) the way i understand it is that field current is more important than field voltage, and that it should be right around 4 Amps continually from startup all the way up until your max speed. THEN it is optionally dynamic (but only in the lessening direction) to further your top-end.
Jared McNeil we ran with a 12V4A field coil on a bench test with success Iacona Andrew What do you use to make the field
Craig Byrne Basically, take the cap off an alternator and remove the diode pack., you'll either find 3 wires of 6 wires on the outer windings. If it's 6 make them into 3 consecutive pairs. Then take apart the part where the brushes contact the “commutator” you'll need to apply voltage to this to make the the the shaft an electromagnet. This replaces the permanent magnet in other brushless motors.
Jared McNeil this isn't the best video in the world but it goes over a bit about how to make those changes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKqy3rRWJQE
YOUTUBE.COM Converting a Car Alternator into a Go Kart Motor
Iacona Andrew I watched it seems to skip a lot of things
Jared McNeil yeah there's some more content i found about it when i was researching about how to do it also and idk if i can find it again
Iacona Andrew Also does the size matter? Car, truck etc
David Ortiz-Grob David Ortiz-Grob Bigger is better obvs but there’s no straightforward way to convert the rated generation voltage and current into usable motor power
(Not entirely true. The big alternators on Phantom ICT seem to draw a lot of current just spinning themselves with no load. Whereas the smaller ones on Phantom 48 seem to have a lower current draw. This matters due to the fuse limit.)
Murray Hersh Murray Hersh Just as a heads up on the $30 eBay controller. It's generally a great controller however it does seem to be limited in terms of maximum output frequency.
We could figure out how well it will work if we know the kv of the alternator (under various field currents) as well as the number of poles.
IaconaAndrew What would be the better speed controller for this project? On a budget of course
Murray Hersh Murray Hersh IaconaAndrew The eBay controller actually should work pretty well especially for a budget build. I'm generally impressed by the controller, especially for $30. It's biggest limitation is output frequency, however with the data Marshall Scholz posted a…See More
Murray Hersh Murray Hersh Okay here is some data courtesy of Marshall Scholz:
All duty cycle at 95%
Actual voltage is correct. Batt was discharged
Rotor current: 0.93a Rotor watt: 2w Vbat: 45.7v Ibat: 4.52 Imotor: 4.76 Watt@noLoad: 207w erpm@no load: 38338.0
Rotor current: 1.5a Rotor watt: 2.9×1.5 = 4.35w Vbat: 45.7v Ibat: 4.74 Imotor: 4.99 Watt@noLoad: 216w erpm@no load: 27448.0
Rotor current: 2.0a Rotor watt: 3.9×2.0=7.8 w Vbat: 45.7v Ibat: 5.05 Imotor: 5.31 Watt@noLoad: 230w erpm@no load: 23005.0
Rotor current: 3.0a Rotor watt: 5.9×3.0=17.7w Vbat: 45.7v Ibat: 5.85 Imotor: 6.15 Watt@noLoad: 267w erpm@no load: 19293.0
In short the output frequency is a little high at the low field current side of things, but should work under the higher field current values with the standard eBay “1500w” controller. I would recommend sensorless honestly.
Marshall Scholz A 100+a alternator is probably ideal. I Use one of these https://ebay.com/itm/172787419292?ul_noapp=true DC-DC Buck Converter Step Down Regulator 60V 48V 36V 24V 12V to 19V 14V 9V 6V 3V
To supply my rotor current. Since it is resistive and doesn't recieve a changing feild you. Can use cc or cv to power it I use 3a when I'm not dynamically controlling the feild on my alternator. I suggest having an easy to reach pot that will control feild current if you don't do it dynamically. It should adjust between 1-5a
Andrew Davis FYI. Wear safety glasses. I got one of these and was adjusting the output voltage an it blew the capacitors. Albeit, I was adjusting the regulator no load, which i don't think should matter, but whatever safety first!
IaconaAndrew The one question that jury still seems to be out on is what alterntor will work best? Truck, SUV, car ? I ve learned bigger is not always better
Pole Guy It seems the GM alternators on Phantom 48 (which are smaller) seem to draw less current at full speed. That's good. The bigger ones used on Phantom ICT draw more current at high speed. They work, but maybe not so good.
Also, belt drive works great, but maybe not so well with sensorless controllers, because there is no slop (from a chain) so the motor controller has trouble starting with the full load applied immediately as it can't figure out it's position without drawing too much current.
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Rick Anderson September 29, 2015 Cartastrophe used alternators for motors. Same with the FuVette. I'm starting to work on the custom controls. From what I remember both Cartastrophe and Phantom 48 have some documentation on doing that. Anyone know where it is? Thanks
Jaimy Juliano They are Delco CS130D or some derivative. 100A or 110A rated, don't remember. 1 Manage Like · Reply · 2y Jaimy Juliano Jaimy Juliano We also did win a race or two on some 45 Amp Hitachi ones that where for a 1984 Isuzu trooper or some such thing. They worked but got really hot and had a low top speed. Also worth mentioning that I tried to get external hall sensors to work and our Kelly controllers where just not having any of that. 1 Manage Like · Reply · 2y Jon Halverson Jon Halverson We used the CS120D's because they are ubiquitous. Id love to build a dyno and try a few different models to see if there is much difference. Manage Like · Reply · 2y Jaimy Juliano Jaimy Juliano We might have 120s on cartastrophy too honestly. I'm not sure. I know for a fact that the Mark III has the 130s and I know that the bearings are the same on all of them. The housings are slightly different though. Manage Like · Reply · 2y Jon Halverson Jon Halverson no.. you were right… I misstyped Manage Like · Reply · 2y Jaimy Juliano Jaimy Juliano Ohhhh, ! Manage
– July 20, 2015 Travis Davis Travis Davis Thank you for posting this. I have been tied up with school work and work work lately. But wanted to get back to this. Manage LikeShow more reactions · Reply · 2y Travis Davis Travis Davis was this the halls you use? http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail… Manage Like · Reply · 2y Grayslake Garage - Cartastrophe Grayslake Garage - Cartastrophe I'll have to check when I get home Manage LikeShow more reactions · Reply · 2y Travis Davis Travis Davis thank you Manage LikeShow more reactions · Reply · 2y Grayslake Garage - Cartastrophe Grayslake Garage - Cartastrophe I have used both Digi-Key PN 480-5412-ND and PN AH3761-PG-ADICT-ND. Manage LikeShow more reactions · Reply · 2y Travis Davis Travis Davis wow much smaller than what i had Manage LikeShow more reactions · Reply · 2y Pole Guy
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Travis Davis Travis Davis Thank you for the help. Here is attempt 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puzYAYJDhcY Manage
YOUTUBE.COM Second Try Alternator as a motor LikeShow more reactions · Reply · 2y Travis Davis Travis Davis can you offer some advice on phasing this thing? Manage LikeShow more reactions · Reply · 2y Travis Davis Travis Davis nevermind found it 1.5k ohm on the windings dont work. lol
This is not necessary if you're running sensorless or use a shaft mounted magnet and a magnetic sensor (ala Phantom 48 and Phantom ICT)
Grayslake Garage - CartastropheLike Page July 20, 2015 · I just went through the process of installing Halls in the MK III alternator. Since a lot of people in KC asked about installing Hall sensors, I thought I would share a photo guide. I should do an instructable, but if I never get a round to it, then the info never gets out. So, here ya go.
Jon Halverson Try not to short the laminations during this process. There may be a way to etch back a bit with some salt and vinegar. Manage Like · Reply · 3y Grayslake Garage - Cartastrophe Grayslake Garage - Cartastrophe Yeah, good point. I was worried about that the first time I did this but nothing bad “seemed” to happen. Maybe we'd be twice as fast if I wasn't always creating wild eddy currents in or motors ;) Manage Like · Reply · 3y Jon Halverson Jon Halverson likely just a little extra heat. probably not a big deal, but this is racing!