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--- builds:alternators [2018/07/21 22:36]
poleguy [Notes from Facebook group discussion]
+++ builds:alternators [2018/07/22 16:25] (current)
poleguy
@@ Line 5: / Line 5: @@
   - Get an alternator from a junkyard (or pay for a new one on ebay, rockauto.com, etc.)
  (If anyone has pictures/model numbers/car models and years, please contribute here.)
+[[https://alternatorparts.com/cs130-cs130d-series-alternators.html|CS130D]]
 Phantom 48 used a GM alternator.
 Phantom ICT uses a bigger one.
   - Remove the regulator. (Unbolt)
+{{:builds:img_20160917_110715278.jpg?200|}}
   - Solder some RC style bullet connectors on to the three windings.
+{{:builds:img_20160917_101110505.jpg?200|}}
   - Solder wires onto the contacts for the brushes to drive the field windings.
-  - Isolate the brushes from the case with a nylon washer.
+{{:builds:img_20160917_112614789.jpg?200|}}
+  - Isolate the brushes from the case with nylon washers, bolts, or by clipping the metal so it doesn't touch.
+{{:builds:img_20160917_114709251.jpg?200|}}
+  - Reassemble
+{{:builds:img_20160917_114703149.jpg?200|}}
   - Get a controller.[[https://ebay.com/itm/48V-DC-1500W-Brushless-Motor-Controller-For-E-bike-Scooter-Electric-Bicycle-US/252876629480?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649|1500W]]
   - Get a field drive (Constant Current). [[https://ebay.com/itm/172787419292?ul_noapp=true|
@@ Line 22: / Line 29: @@
   * Field strengthening. Some cars do this. They have a button that increases the current to the field. The button basically puts more current into the field so that you have more torque to start from a stop (at the start of the race, etc.
-====== Notes from Facebook group discussion ======
+====== Notes from Facebook group discussions ======
@@ Line 304: / Line 311: @@
 Manage
 Like · Reply · 2y
+---
+Travis Davis
+January 14, 2017
+https://youtu.be/boYqALbrv6s
+Patrick Becker
+Admin · August 11, 2015
+I noticed a few teams using alternators for drive motors. Wondering if anyone could point me to a resource that explains that a bit more?
+Comments
+Like
+Comment
+Comments
+Jaimy Juliano
+Jaimy Juliano It's not as complicated as you might think.
+Step one: Unsolder the 3 phase winding terminals and Rip off all the rectifier electronics.
+Step 2: Add wires to the 3 phase winding leads.
+Step 3: Add wires to the brush terminals for the field windings. Apply around 3A of current to the field terminals. Alternators (most of them) don't have magnets, they have field coils on the rotor. The current can be tuned for better performance once everything is working.
+DONE: As long as there is current on the field, You now have a 3 phase brushless motor. All resources available on BLDC motors apply from that point on.
+Manage
+y · Like
+Jaimy Juliano
+Jaimy Juliano Oh, also. To start with just get a cheap Chinese sensorless controller online. Once things are working you can get "fancy"
+Manage
+y · Like
+Jon Halverson
+Jon Halverson Yep!
+Manage
+y · Like
+--
+Charles Guan
+July 23, 2015
+last minute addition - an "anti-fuck" diode, pointed against battery voltage, for allowing regeneration current to pass back through in case the fuse blows.
+No automatic alt text available.
+{{:builds:11742720_10153519485478928_2088746989278637422_n.jpg?200|}}
+Comments
+Like
+Comment
+Comments
+Charles Guan
+Charles Guan this idea brought to you last year some time by Phantom, i think. someone talked to me about it anyway
+Manage
+y · Like
+Jon Halverson
+Jon Halverson Highly recommended. It only took us a couple FET replacements to figure out what was happening.
+Manage
+y · Like
+Eli Richter
+Eli Richter Is this needed only if you're using regen braking?
+Manage
+y · Like
+Charles Guan
+Charles Guan like cool kids
+Manage
+y · Like
+Jaimy Juliano
+Jaimy Juliano Jon, where you blowing FETs with the field current cut too? Or with field still powered outside of the fuse? We run our field through the fuse so I figured I was ~safe. Never had any problems until we had all the problems in KC so now you got me wondering.
+Manage
+y · Like
+Jon Halverson
+Jon Halverson Eli Richter Its an issue for us if you drop the throttle after the fuse blows because the controller still has some juice and sees you tell it to regen. Problem is there is no where for the regen current to go, so the voltage increases (ala switching boost converter) until the FETs blow. The diode allows the regen current back into the battery.
+Manage
+y · Like
+Jon Halverson
+Jon Halverson Jaimy Juliano Its a problem either way since the regen charges the caps at the controller and keeps everything up and running.
+Manage
+y · Like
+Eli Richter
+Eli Richter Jon Halverson We don't have regenerative braking on our car, it's just a simple Alltrax axe controller.
+Manage
+y · Like
+Jaimy Juliano
+Jaimy Juliano I think i get it. I didn't think the residual magnetism on the rotor after field current was cut would be enough to generate any significant voltage. I was thinking "alternator" or "generator" not "big f-ing inductor in a big f-ing boost converter". Correct?
+Manage
+y · Like
+Jon Halverson
+Jon Halverson Field current doesn't ever really stop since the regen keeps the supply caps post fuse charged up. up too much is the problem
+Manage
+y · Like
+Jaimy Juliano
+Jaimy Juliano Got it
+Manage
+y · Like
+====== Batteries ======
+Mike Reilly
+July 6, 2015
+Next short survey: what's your choice of battery? The brand and model would be very appreciated.
+Comments
+Like
+Comment
+Comments
+Jon Halverson
+Jon Halverson Phantom48 uses 12S2P LiFePo packs made with 8 Ahr cells from Headway. The older discontinued power cell, thus the closeout deal when we bought them. We add a 250A fast blow fuse internally to protect the cells from a dead short.
+Manage
+y · Like
+Tanju Bayramoglu
+Tanju Bayramoglu currently running 3x 35Ah SLAs from Harbor Freight's "solar panel department", they're big and heavy. hoping to upgrade in the coming years.
+Manage
+y · Like
+Randy Farmer
+Randy Farmer I have two packs made with 3x18ah UPS batteries, and one pack that are very similarly sized Wal Mart special AGM 3x18ah ATV batteries.
+Manage
+y · Like
+Scott Rizzo
+Scott Rizzo 2 12vx35Ahr simular to Tanju Bayramoglu. Would love to go to LiFePo but dont have the budget. Need a deal like Jon Halverson found.
+Manage
+y · Like
+Jon Halverson
+Jon Halverson Scott Rizzo, It was the 38120P that we found for $9 each. There are deals like that around, but you gotta watch for them. A123 pouches are what we really wanted to build with, but the market on them at the time was not good. Our packs are $216 each,…See More
+Manage
+y · Like
+Scott Rizzo
+Scott Rizzo I've seen the video of the snowblower and mower. Very cool use what you have learned with the car.
+Manage
+y · Edited · Like
+Scott Rizzo
+Scott Rizzo I think in the off season I am going to experiment with the alternator as motor power system. I could remove a lot of weight over my 40+ lb motor and maybe extend the battery run time
+Manage
+y · Edited · Like
+Jon Halverson
+Jon Halverson The motors on the blower and mower are nice DC motors. we would have loved to use them for P48, but determined early on they were no way legal to run based on the budget rules. Using alternators was the alternative, and felt like an appropriate chall…See More
+Manage
+y · Like
+Scott Rizzo
+Scott Rizzo If you have some time in Detroit I would like to pick your brain a little on the alt conversion. I have been doing some research but any info you are willing to share would be appreciated. I am sure I will be starting with off the shelf parts just to get it running
+Manage
+y · Like
+Chris Lee
+Chris LeeChris and 2 others manage the membership, moderators, settings, and posts for Powerwheels Racers for Adults. Ditto, I'd love to hear about your alternator setup.
+Manage
+y · Like
+Jon Halverson
+Jon Halverson More than happy to. Get a couple of these to start: http://www.ebay.com/.../36V-800W.../160806898126.... Then you need to find/make something that will put around 3A through the field winding. We raced 1.5 seasons like that, and still bring them to every race just in case.
+Manage
+EBAY.COM
+V 800W Brushless E-bike& Scooter Controller With Hall
+y · Like
+Randy Farmer
+Randy Farmer Are you using one of these new fancy brushless alternators, or a good old fashioned one?
+Manage
+y · Like
+Jon Halverson
+Jon Halverson I didn't know there was such a thing as a brushless alternator. I forget the model number on ours, but its a stock 90's GM alternator. One has "92 Lumina" written on it. There are pics around. The field magnetizing current technically flows through brushes, but its low current and not commutating so technically its still considered a "brushless" motor. Update: CS130D is the alternator model.
+Manage
+y · Edited · Like
+Scott Rizzo
+Scott Rizzo Looked up the part on eBay. Is it possible to run on 24volts or does it need to be 36? My battery packs are 24v now and I am not sure I could fit an additional battery in the car
+Manage
+y · Edited · Like
+Jon Halverson
+Jon Halverson Charles Guan has some tear down info you should read. Look up Jasontroller.
+Manage
+y · Like
+Charles Guan
+Charles Guan we couldn't get my van's alternators to produce torque worth shit. must be a "big muscular U.S. mancar with big muscular U.S. man-ternator" thing
+Manage
+y · Like
+Jon Halverson
+Jon Halverson We started with static torque tests to see what current ranges worked best. We fed one phase and used a torque wrench to see what it took to break it over. We were able to see the field saturate, but never did find the limit on motor current. At 150A its hard to do a stalled test without smoke coming out.
+Manage
+y · Like
+Jon Halverson
+Jon Halverson Charles Guan are you sure your field winding was working right? The alts will spin just on residual magnetism, but really low torque.
+Manage
+y · Like
+Randy Farmer
+Randy Farmer So how well do the run at 80/60/40 amps? I'm intrigued now
+Manage
+y · Like
+Jon Halverson
+Jon Halverson this thread is getting long... We won a stack of medals with two china controllers limited to 30A each. That ended up being just about perfect for the 40A fuse. That's 30A battery current., motor current can be much higher. With our own controller design we have more control over things, but the 40A fuse keeps it from being a huge advantage. When the power into the system is limited like it is, a fast car has to be an efficient car. We really need to build a dyno...e
+Manage
+y · Like
+Mike Reilly
+Mike Reilly Thanks again folks, more short questions to come.
+Manage
+y · Like
 ====== Greyslake garage, Hall Install ======

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